Living the Revolution

by HUB Newsfeed

I received my Gold Card for road-service club membership the other day and feel somewhat ancient, as the Gold is issued for 25 years of driving your own car.

Like many other young women of the 70s, I rallied to the “personal is political” slogans of women’s liberation (later termed feminism), because I twigged to the connection between how males treat females in “private” (or personal) relationships, is mirrored in how males-as-a-class treat females-as-a-class in “public” (or social and political) relationships.   The other popular stream of the thinking of my youth, was seeing the “personal is political”, as purely and strictly personal, in that the choices individuals make in their personal lives can help to change the world.  It was believed that there is also a connection between the personal choices you make in life and the revolution you intended to help to create.  ‘Living The Revolution Now’, was the hippy-trippy ideal of living your life in a way that helped construct how you would like the world to be, because that would help to make change.  For feminism, this meant women became political lesbians, refused children as well as marriage, built all-women networks, communities, collectives etc, became veggie/vegans, gave up beauty practices and so on.

I never agreed with this approach as a feminist political strategy.  Not then, not now.  It can work very well for some individual women as ‘personal’ solutions etc – but not ‘politically’. On a purely personal level, I also disliked such romantic utopian visions.  I just couldn’t get all excited about those lifestyles, though I well appreciate that many others do and I am glad they do exist.  They are a very valuable option for those women who want to, can take up.  But whether I was personally attracted to it or not, I never could see what political use any of it was.

The reason my years of driving brought this tangential connection to me, was that way-back-then – many women never learned to drive, or only ever drove their husband’s cars.  For my generation, in my geographical space, a woman having her own car was a really a Big Deal.  It was up there with the first generation of married women having their own bank accounts, or making a purchase without a male signing as guarantor.  It signified an independence from men, that few women of that generation enjoyed.    Now, all these years later, I am constantly told how terrible I am for driving and being environmentally uncool and leaving so many carbon-footprints… yadda, yadda.

Personal lifestyle ‘options’ ( I don’t like using the word ‘choice’) such as these are  limited to a small population of the wealthiest western countries. For every woman who can disengage herself, or gain some measure of independence from patriarchy, or undertake resistance to it, through personal lifestyle options — there are thousands more women that patriarchy can, and will, force into the same old female servitude as they have done for millennia.   For me, these forms of separatist options, meant separating not just from men, but also separating from most other women as well.  While it may be the best possible solution for some women in some circumstances, I could not see any form of solidarity building in a political sense.

From a commonality of political understanding that all females are oppressed by all males with Female-Hatred underpinning the structures of female-oppression, to isms of  ‘differences’ and policing individual women’s personal behaviours and lifestyles.  Just like many of us did in school.  Maybe the points we used to score hits against each other are different to the ones we used in girlhood, but the mechanism is still the same.  Similar to other oppressed groups of human beings, this hatred can be internalised by individuals and sub-groups of the oppressed as Self-Hatred, and fully accepted as the norm for any given group. The generic social hate can then become wide-spread often projected onto others, as horizontal hostility, as in “othering” sub-groups of the oppressed population.

Such ‘personal’ strategies, has also done a lot to divide feminists into cliques, or in politics-speak – ‘factions’.  Its as if each clique only cares about, and feels sisterhood with, other women who are just like themselves.  Anybody who doesn’t fit the ‘standard’ forms of behaviour for any particular clique/faction, is excluded, shunned.   The lesbian-separatist version of the church women’s sewing-circle, suburban housewives kaffee-klatsch, mums & bubs playdating, or neighbourhood women’s softball team .  Methinx, these are all valuable in their own way, as precious womens ‘space’ for the nurturing of women’s culture, but it tends to stay within the clique, for the benefit of the clique, rather than expanding across women.  Deborah Tannen in her work ‘You Just Don’t Understand’, described girls/women’s social networks as being constructed from “horizontal hierarchies”, of concentric circles, or ‘spheres’, based on degree-of-relationship with the centre, and very different from the pyramidal “vertical hierarchies” which males tend to construct, and which we are probably more familiar.

I started thinking the relational way that women operate and are socialised as girls-with-girls, can be our greatest strength – but also our greatest weakness.  Perhaps when it comes to women-to-women relationships in the absence of men, there are more ways of seeing the “personal is political”.  It could be fun to explore it anyway.

Or perhaps I just want an excuse to return to childhood, so I can re-start over again with Living The Revolution?

Herstorical Note: This post was originally posted here, at the Radfem HUB, on August 26, 2011, and was authored by HUB author Rainsinger. On May 28, 2012, Rainsinger left the HUB and indicated that she wished to have this post removed from the HUB, and no longer desired to have her name associated with the HUB. Instead of allowing content to be deleted from the HUB which would be deleterious to our herstory, it was proposed by the remaining HUB bloggers, and agreed to by Rainsinger, that, as a compromise, the substance of the post would be left intact and authorship would be changed to the generic HUB user, “HUB Newsfeed”. However, the HUB now regrets making this compromise, and believes that changing the authorship of the post was also deleterious of our herstory. The post should have remained intact, in every respect. We regret this error in judgement, as well as the fact that this change is permanent and cannot be altered. — Eds. 6/15/12


33 Comments to “Living the Revolution”

  1. Hi Rain,

    I’m living with those same memories and insights, and every day still trying to make sense of them.

    Thanks very much for this post. ❤

  2. After reading your post, I understand how horizontal hierarchy in my female social sphere has isolated me from other women. It really is our weakness. The clique mentality has to stop if we are to have a women’s movement again, IMHO.

  3. OMGod-dess Rain, a real trip down memory lane. This is also my experience……I always seem to be a threat to other womon, even my own Daughter…..I guess the majority of womon just want a quiet life these days…challenging the status quo currently seems to be a bridge too far. There are however some examples of global womons resistance…..I guess we have yet to win the War but instead have to choose our battles, mostly defending the most basic of rights and entitlements…..

  4. I believe the personal is political, but we really have to fight the isolation that is forced on women. Politics requires other people to build solidarity with. It’s hard to build solidarity because women are taught from day one about separate, divide, and control. We are not encouraged to make allies of each other. We’re actually taught that other women are the enemy.

  5. “We’re actually taught that other women are the enemy.”

    Yes, we are! One of the most subversive things a woman can do these days is refuse to participate in the competitive, fake “feminine” rat race that occurs in most social circles.

  6. I LOVE this post Rain!!!
    I agree that if even ONE woman falls through the net, then that is one woman too many
    The women’s movement HAS to include every single woman–that should be its basic philosophy

  7. Thanks everyone 🙂

    yttik: “We’re actually taught that other women are the enemy.”
    *nodding* – starting with mothers daughters.

    It’s hard to build solidarity because women are taught from day one about separate, divide, and control.

    Yes, fighting over petty things is encouraged – as it tends to isolate girls as individuals – one of the things I hassled my teenage girls about, was ‘staying together’ as a group when they first started going out at night. No matter how much you fight between yourselves, no matter how much you start hating each other – stay together no matter what, until you are home safe. Safety in numbers. Its when girls get shunned and isolated from the gaggle, that male predators move in. They see women in groups like sheep or other grazing herd animals, as prey – like most predators, they focus on the ‘stragglers’ to more easily cull them from the herd. Women are socialised as girls, to help the process along and make it easier for males to prey on women.

  8. I agree that if even ONE woman falls through the net, then that is one woman too many
    The women’s movement HAS to include every single woman–that should be its basic philosophy

    Yay for dworkinisms 🙂 Whilever any woman on this planet continues to be bought and sold in slavery, we all live in chains 🙂

  9. Awesome post, Rain. I agree with every word, women need unity.

    “Its when girls get shunned and isolated from the gaggle, that male predators move in. They see women in groups like sheep or other grazing herd animals, as prey – like most predators, they focus on the ‘stragglers’ to more easily cull them from the herd. Women are socialised as girls, to help the process along and make it easier for males to prey on women.”

    Excellent point, this is exactly what happens and something we could do a lot to change, through education and mother awareness, and this would also provide a good basis in which to form and grasp the need for unity among adult women.

    A heard a while back about a group of girls which was always engaging in shunning behaviour, sometimes you were in, sometimes you were out. One girls mother was ill during a shunning session, and the teacher, who new this, raped a girl in the locker room after her ex friends had flounced off and left her there. The principle believed the teacher, and no action was taken. A short time later she was raped walking home after school by three men, she went to the police and it was almost as if they were expecting her, two policemen raped her as well. All of the men, the teacher the principle the men who, raped her walking home and the policemen, played golf together, it reminded me of the original (1975) film of “The Stepford Wives”. Men gossip like mad about sex, nothing is ever kept a secret from their mates, something all women need to remember and tell their daughters about. The mother and daughter had to leave the area, they had no option, it would have just kept on escalating.
    The woman who told me this, mainly focused on the chilling degree of co-ordination from the golf club cronies and even wondered if the girls GP had been in on the act as he was very unhelpful and a regular at the club. Already knowing how men from different professions get together to stitch women up, I was more focused on how female shunning had yet again triggered a terrible chain of events.

    I think lessons on shunning and the need for female unity should be part of our educational curriculum.

  10. Thanks for really addressing the larger scale.

    Yeah-when I hear and see about female-only space, etc. I think it’s wonderful. But in my mind, because I tend to watch the bigger picture and study the history of patriarchy (i.e., history, period) I do think that it’s a stopgap, bandaid- something that relieves the pain and that’s great, but it’s not a cure.

    I do not think it’s possible to end patriarchy. I think many feminists do not realize that the overpopulation, the ratio of males and females, the physical evolution of humans, all of this is patriarchy, or a result of it. feminism, radical feminism is great because it’s the truth, but in effect there’s no remedy. yes, we can and all should work to end women’s pain, but the sad fact is, we’re not going to end patriarchy completely. It’s too big and too far advanced.

  11. ((( Sonia )))

    I agree.

  12. Well, here in Canada, we are mourning a man who established the first white ribbon campaign about violence against women. While, I did not agree with everything Jack Layton said, he was a inclusive politician. He said that one’s dreams have to be larger than a lifetime. So, I do believe he is right. The patriarchy will be defeated, but maybe not in our lifetime. His message to Canadians was love is better than anger, hope is better than fear and optimism is better than despair. Now all that sound like sentimentality, but really he lived what he believed. His wife just amazes me. He name is Olivia Chow. Watch out, she will move mountains. Arundhati Roy was quoted. “She is returning”. I can’t find the exact quote right now, but I just thought wow. Magic is afoot. We will see I guess, but I choose optimism.

  13. I think women need optimism and moral support, and helping with women’s pain even if only in small corners of the world. I don’t think patriarchy can be ended, and will just continue, until it implodes. It needs to be overthrown, but that is the one thing women could never do.

  14. i agree too that we will not defeat it. overpopulation is the biggest and most obvious direct result of PIV as sex and mens PIV entitlement, which would never exist outside of patriarchy. but look at what its done: the result is disasterous and on a massive scale, and cannot be undone. i didnt make the connection between overpopulation and PIV myself until recently. thats stunning too. i agree too that patriarchy will probably implode. if its unsustainable, it will implode. its just a matter of time.

  15. Patriarchies will be more localized, and more “primitive”.

    There will be a huge global population crash as climate change effects become more pronounced. Electronic infrastructure and information technology will also crash as shipments of oil become interrupted and ultimately cease. Currencies, debts, all that nonsense will disappear into vapour.

    Basic, durable old low-tech feudal patriarchy will set in everywhere; not because of “ideology” but because of raw male physical power, and the inherent sadism of the male. It’ll just be your basic warlords-riding-around-in-packs-brandishing-weapons scenario.

    Females will still be required to bear as many births as their bodies can withstand, from puberty onwards. Not that males will wait until puberty to begin raping female children.

    As always, females will compete with each other viciously for crumbs of approval from males. Females will also continue to provide slender threads of occasional support to each other which at times may turn out to be lifesaving. It will have no effect on the prevalence of patriarchy.

    Some of the original species of life on planet Earth will survive.

  16. Great post, Rain. I’ll stay separatist, but it is too sad and bad so many other womyn cannot separate themselves from men…

    Sonia & others- I think global warming disasters will cull a very large number of the human population. Among the humans that will be left after the disasters, I sincerely hope there will be many womyn who will want to overthrow patriarchy. Only then, it will be possible. I know, that’s not very optimistic (and it is very sad that many women & girls will die in ecological disasters entirely caused by patriarchy) but it’s already be strongly suggested that global warming will considerably reduce the human population…

    IOW, I don’t believe the chance of defeating patriarchy will be Zero in a much less populated world…

    Also, please don’t forget that it’s been scientifically proven that the Y chromosome is deteriorating.. With some luck, someday, men could become extinct (though this would happen in many, many years) and womyn could maybe then find a way of developping human parthenogenesis in womyn, e.g. here. I know, I may have been reading too much Lesbian Utopia fiction but I still believe there may be more hope in that stuff than in the current world we live in…

    FCM- I could not agree more re Overpopulation as a direct consequequence of PIV as male entitlement, that and compulsory heterosexuality have caused overpopulation for sure.

  17. Despite all this over-expressed patriarchy, womon and girls still resist winning small battles everyday, that oft-times get ignored. But they are real acts of resistance and to resist is to exist……and as rads we can offer our own resistance on a daily basis….I have to there is no other way……

  18. Patriarchy could be overthrown, but we would have to focus on women and women are broken hard in childhood, and cannot see the possibilities that unity between themselves can bring. They still actually believe that they belong in marriages with men!

    Women belong with women and men with men, but wherever we go as a group, men will follow as a group, and many of those men would be a lot better off under matriarchy (semantically the opposite of patriarchy, but in lived reality very egalitarian) only the great unchosen would be worse off because they would never become fathers, but then they could still live relatively comfortable, war free, lives.
    If women stand together as a force many men would join us, but as long as we kick each other in the teeth and then cloyingly plead our personal case with some individual man (who has no power himself, except the power he gets from being in a group) we will remain without support.

    One additional thing we need to understand is that Y chromosomes (that are the cause of maleness) have been replaced across much of the world and we no longer have the ones we evolved with, in all probability the males we have today, overtime, killed our original males. Because the Y chromosome does not mix with other genes it gets passed identically from father to son, apart from very occasional new mutations. So though they are mixed with us on every other chromosome, the Y chromosome remains separate and foreign.
    Though most animals mate with some opposition of interests between male and female, they also do so with a large degree of synchronicity. I have never seen a species with its sexuality as ill matched as it is between humans, many of our supposed mating practises are in fact atrocities. Other animals encountering such sexual discord, are almost certainly species hybrids like us, as that is the most likely cause of such a complete mismatch of reproductive protocol.

    I believe if we understand all the causes, both social and biological of the collapse of matriarchy it is possible to rebuild it. But we must put our emotions to one side and use our intellects.

  19. I’ve been meaning to reply to this post for several days now. There is so much I could say!

    First, I agree with you about the ability to drive being a feminist issue. I think women who have always had driver’s licenses and access to cars are not in a position to realize this. If men did not benefit from women not having easy access to transportation, why would the patriarchs of Saudia Arabia not allow womyn to drive? That said, car culture should never have been invented in the first place. So much of this technological world that alienates us from one another was and is a mistake.

    This brings me to my next point: I am very much in sad agreement with Mary Sunshine about what will happen as the collapse of industrial civilization continues. Hell, it’s already happening in some parts of the world (i.e. DR of Congo, Somalia, etc).

    And it’s true that women COULD overthrow patriarchy but would rather defend male standards as “feminist.” I once corresponded with a woman who said, “if women really wanted to be free, they would have found a way by now.” At the time, that comment really pissed me off, but now I think she’s right. If even more than 50% of womynkind joined forces in a revolutionary movement, we could put at end to this bullshit. And for those who consider themselves “humanists” and not feminists–a feminist rev. really would benefit men, especially the more sensitive men out there, but it doesn’t make sense to argue from such a prospective when women are the ones being sexually and actually slaughtered in mass.

  20. I agree, Zeph, with your clear analysis. I did not know some of what you wrote about the Y chromosome. Fascinating!

    I belong to the school of hope. I think it will be a cold day in hell before western women give up the legal rights that have finally been wrested. We have learned too much, come too far, for any propaganda or social pressure to trick or compel us into giving up those rights; I do believe we would fight hard, and use the legal systems to stop a rollback. Meantime the patriarchal system made a huge and I think historic mistake in not fighting to the death to keep those legal rights from us. At this time the incredible tool of access to the legal system as full citizens is available to us. We are just beginning to use the power this gives us. We are becoming savvy by becoming lawyers ourselves. We are literate and cannot be shut up legally. It’s going to be impossible to put us out of the job market. The use of the legal system to keep us enslaved was one of three major patriarchal tools, and the most effective, I think.

    The other two are manipulation of cultural mores through the media, the churches, and social institutions like marriage, and criminal force such as intimidation and rape. The system is still very successful and getting better at it all the time, with these last two tools. I personally have to gape in wonder at the efficiency and ruthlessness in “turning” women academics toward so-called post-modern feminism, which is a twisted set of fad notions that only confuse us, with the sex-positive b.s. which is of great harm to us, with the manipulation of the written word, including media and literature and TV, and so on. Criminal force has been similarly strengthened, with cooked rape statistics, more subtle techniques of intimidation, convincing women not to arm or protect themselves, and continuing to teach women to keep quiet about incest and wife-beating.

    Even so, I know we can all think of plenty of examples in which those second two tools are starting to look rusty and obsolete. We are resisting a lot of it, and some of the message is getting through to more women, I believe.

    I’m also optimistic about two tools which are just now coming into play that help women. First of all, technology has its downsides for women, but I think on the whole may be harnessed as a huge new tool for women. We can earn good incomes here; educate ourselves here; network with other women and raise consciousnesses in a revolutionary way.

    Second, science, and especially the biological sciences, are opening up new ways to look at this ancient system. Zeph, you bring up evolutionary biology. We are going to be used by these discoveries if we don’t hustle to get some control in this area, and it’s not too late by any means. Babies will soon be born outside the female womb, and I don’t think it will be long. We have to know how we’ll turn that to our advantage. The era of genetic manipulation of humans has already begun. We can use that knowledge as powerfully as men will.

    If you have any sympathy toward the essentialist theory, that patriarchy has biological roots, isn’t it obvious that the imbalance in testosterone between the two sexes is a primary cause of all this enslavement over the ages, and if we can moderate the aggressive, hierarchical pathology caused by the over-expression of testosterone due to the Y chromosome, won’t that make the unthinkable, the end of patriarchy a predictable outcome? The technology does now or will shortly exist; what can be done?

    We all do have to survive in this unhealthy society for now, but I think the future tends toward a huge increase in women’s freedom. That’s unless Mary’s prediction comes true and we all return to savagery, of course. In that case, let’s plan for hidden communities of women. But let’s not give up.

  21. Sorry to keep saying “huge” all the time…(smiley face)

  22. let’s plan for hidden communities of women.

    Women will create them, and males will not access them. It will not happen in my (already too long) lifetime – but it will happen.

    Technology will not survive the effects of climate change. Does anybody think it will? If so, please explain.

  23. yep, I’m in the optimism camp too.
    In Japan I am seeing the fall of patriarchy with my own eyes. During the bubble economy of the 80s enormous phallic monstrosities were built all over the countryside in the form of bridges, tall buildings, cemented river basins, hotels, city council offices–all built by and for men, Well, the bubble burst, as it has done in Europe and the US but something else happened too: Japanese women stopped having children. Their fertility rate is 1.26, which is the lowest in the world. What this means is that today as you drive around the Japanese countryside you see nature TAKING OVER and pulling it all down. Trees growing through the cracks in the cement, grass running wild in abandoned car parks. There aren’t enough citizens to tax to sustain what they previously had. And no matter what the government does, the fertility rate refuses to budge and actually KEEPS dropping.

    THe other positive omen I am seeing all over the world is the fact that over 70% of divorces are initiated by women. My mother divorced my father in her fifties. My grandmother did not divorce her husband. I believe my mother felt a “failure” because her marriage had “failed” and this is why she stuck at it for so long but I don’t think this is the case with younger women because there are now millions of divorced women who have paved the way (though patriarchies make life a living hell for mothers, what with custody battles and lack of maintenance and childcare). That’s a million women who are NOT going to be caring for husbands into their old age. Has this happened before in history?

  24. I’ve also been reading about how plastics are highly toxic (plastic baby bottles have been banned in many countries) and can cause mutations in males, or if a pregnant woman is exposed to a lot of a certain chemical in plastics she is far more likely to conceive a girl

  25. if a pregnant woman is exposed to a lot of a certain chemical in plastics she is far more likely to conceive a girl

    Now, *there* is a ray of hope!!


  26. @Mary Sunshine. I agree with everything you have written about the collapse of large-scale industrial civilization due to the collapse of the environment, population overshoot, etc. There are many exponentially growing disasters, and if you follow any one of them to their logical conclusion, it equals large-scale collapse. Climate change, resource depletion (fossil fuel, water, minerals, soil, etc), extinction of organisms of all kinds, possibly including humans, toxic damage to the natural world (nuclear, plastic, fracking chemicals, you name it), etc, etc. etc. Since economies are ultimately based on the real world (natural world), as that collapses, the economies collapse. No way to rebuild High tech will be swept away, since it depends on the type of economic system we have seen only in very recent times. If you look at current infrastructure, for instance, you will see a very fragile electric grid system in most places, and there will not be the economic/energy resources to rebuild it. No resources for high tech alternative energy, either. (Nor for technology-driven female parthenogenesis, I believe).

    What will be left? Smaller civilizations that also aren’t viable that will collapse, and ultimately tribal-type organizations. I don’t mean some utopian reversion to hunter-gatherers, since the natural world will be so damaged that is not possible. Nor do I mean the types of “male dominant” tribes that most think of as tribal, but are mainly a response to colonialism.

    What I do mean are small groups that will have to adapt to the very concrete local conditions without further depleting them if they are to remain viable. I cannot see a future for patriarchy here, only diverse, locally adapted matriarchies. To me this is purely a practical matter. Patriarchies are a death culture, and the death of everything is accelerating. But matriarchies are in no way a given, either. I think it is either matriarchies evolving as adaptable social systems or human extinction. Human survival is not a given either, and I think the odds are rapidly getting much worse for that. This is not simply pessimism, but rather is based on exponential change in later stages of all the things noted above, which are just a small sample, things like population overshoot.

    I just ordered the book, SOCIETIES OF PEACE: MATRIARCHIES PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE by Heidi Goettner-Abendroth, (big hat tip to Zeph for this reference and her excellent blogging). I know little about this, but hope to learn more.

    I do think that finding ways to create multiple and diverse matriarchies in all the women’s “cultures” we currently have is an important step toward any human future. I mean everything from the coffee-klatch to the lesbian separatist communities. It is possible that all those women’s-only spaces might be seen as something other than relatively comfortable personal solution to the political horror we call patriarchy. These are places to sow seeds. They are training ground for the types of interactions/communities that are more adaptable to the future we face. It is not the monolithic “one right way” which is inherently patriarchal/totalitarian. This is no utopian present/future, either, given easily predictable dire future conditions.

    That’s what I now think of as what living the revolution might mean. Sowing the seeds of matriarchies wherever we can. Hoping beyond hope that some of them evolve and succeed.

  27. KatieS,

    Thank you for articulating so much of what I have seen “in vision”. Yes, I see that multiplicity of possible local developments, including but not limited to patriarchies.

    We don’t get to experience, or to “inherit” the conditions under which (possible) previous matriarchies existed. We will be living in environmental ruins with a fraction of their resources. I know ( I “know” this in vision) that there will be large lesbian separatist spaces. These spaces will only, (not so strangely enough …), be able to develop after the scenarios that you describe above. They will be durable, and will serve as places of refuge for women who resist, and turn on their heels from, the male dominance that will inevitably develop in the heterosocial groups.

    There is no such thing as “overthrowing the patriarchy” because women will not move en masse. I know that this has been the traditional lefty-influenced feminist ideology: a mass movement resulting in “revolution”. This was what I first encountered as Women’s Liberation in 1970. That concept seems to me to be grounded in a lot of assumptions that don’t make any probabilistic sense. What you describe above *does* make eminent probabilistic sense. And lesbian separatist is what makes instinctive sense.

    When I get chafed by things that Zeph or Twisty hold out as necessary conditions, that’s why, and I’m really just being shitty about them not getting it. That’s my impatient math nerd persona. It behooves me to stay away from those discussions, because they’re really just for the women who want to get sucked into those fantasies.

    My idea of “living the (oh, geez …) revolution” is to prepare the ground, the seed bed, for lesbian separatism – during and after the collapse of the $$$ system. I’m selfish. I know where *I* want to be. Non-hightech parthenogenesis arises eventually in situations of secure lesbian separatist strongholds. That is far in the future (well, from my point of view, cuz I’ll be dead by then), but will be only one of very many potentials that can and will develop in Lesbian Separatist Space.

  28. So will parthenogenesis eventually exist, Mary Sunshine? Non-hightech? Has it already existed? I hope you don’t mind me asking to find out more. 🙂 I would so much love that. I’m fascinated by it. I definitely believe it’s the ultimate way out of this nightmare, that and the extinction of the Y chromosome…

  29. Maggie, the best way to find out about about that is by googling up Chris Sitka. She is a Australian lesbian-feminist of about my age, and years ago wrote an extensive paper about parthenogenesis, which I had on a computer until the computer was destroyed by fire. I think Rain may know her.

  30. Thank you, Mary. 🙂 I’ll do that. I’d love to read the paper by Chris Sitka, if I ever find the link. I’ve already just read this interesting paper by Greta Rensenbrink:

    Very good read on the herstory of parthenogenesis. I was able to access it through logging into my Uni’s website as I am a student…

  31. Hi Maggie,

    I doubt that you will find Chris Sitka’s work on the internet. For that, you would be best to contact Chris through Rain. It was more than 10 years ago that I had the document. Amazing graphics! see if you can track it down. Their was also as issue of Lesbian Ethics way, way back when that had three articles on it.

    I can’t login to get the pdf for the article to which you gave the link. Would you please be so kind as to to download it for me, and mail to MarySunshine aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

    Thank you!

  32. Mary, I’ve already downloaded it already. I will email you the pdf tonight. 😉

    I’m also gonna email Rain for that other paper. Thank you x

  33. Maggie, would it be possible for you to send me these papers to radfemdaria aaaaaaaaaat I can’t download it from the link you posted and I can’t subscribe. I am truly interested in it.

    Thank you.

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